LED Reflectors

[smithsy]

You know you can get proper machine made PCBs for like $60ish for the first one (much cheaper for bulk) from China don't you?? It's much more effective than mucking around with etching chemicals and those iron-on transfers?

[Blakey]

seeing as i can make then for next to noting, and they are pretty much the same, why would i spend $60 a board, you do know how they make proper boards dont you? not all professionally made board are machined. there are alot that are printed on by a ech resist ink, then eched in a large vat of heated enchant. then dunked in a vat of tin(electroplated) then screened with a solder mask, and silk screened for the white labels. so what mine wont have a solder mask or silk screen? they dont do alot. both solder mask and silkscreen are ONLY for populating the board, that no one will see or do. and i can easily get some tin only solder paste to tin plate the board. next you will be saying there are pick and place machines that i can order to populate the board, for an extra $50, ok, how about this you make it by getting someone else to do it, spend about $150 a board. when iv made it for alot less, and mine will be just as reliable.

[smithsy]

But if you are intending to mass-produce the boards it would make alot more sense to get them professionally made up. Once you start ordering quanities of 10+ sorta thing the boards are quite economical. And for a once off prototype by the time you buy the iron-on transfers, etching kit and PCB you've pretty much spent the same as just getting the board properly made.

Oh and dont forget the quality of professionally done boards is alot higher, especially once you start talking about the fine pads and routing that you need for SMD gear.

But hey what would I know? I've only seen a mate try make a AVR Atmega2561 breakout board from that iron-on stuff and fail dismally compared to the proper board he ended up getting made. As he said the iron-on stuff is rubbish and at uni the electronics guys dont even waste their time trying to make them, they just get them made up in china and its quite cheap once you start making alot of boards.

[Dire]

Blakey is being creative and productive and can do whatever he wants.

[Blakey]

But if you are intending to mass-produce the boards it would make alot more sense to get them professionally made up. Once you start ordering quanities of 10+ sorta thing the boards are quite economical. And for a once off prototype by the time you buy the iron-on transfers, etching kit and PCB you've pretty much spent the same as just getting the board properly made.

Oh and dont forget the quality of professionally done boards is alot higher, especially once you start talking about the fine pads and routing that you need for SMD gear.

But hey what would I know? I've only seen a mate try make a AVR Atmega2561 breakout board from that iron-on stuff and fail dismally compared to the proper board he ended up getting made. As he said the iron-on stuff is rubbish and at uni the electronics guys dont even waste their time trying to make them, they just get them made up in china and its quite cheap once you start making alot of boards.

i have already looked in to getting pre made boards, its to expensive. i get all my stuff from china, from the board to the led's, i can even get solder mask and conformal UV coating for protection.

for the boards im making, the toner transfer method, for making boards its the best and cheapest way. i only had very small amounts of dropout on the board because i wasn't careful on getting the paper off. other then that i can make .3mm traces, i do not need traces any smaller. the board is done and designed, i have no need to make it any smaller, unless i was making like a computer board .3mm traces is the smallest i need and toner transfer can do it well. i have absolutely no need to spend the money on a board that will be exactly the same, but have a solder mask and silkscreen. that i will still need to put a conformal coating on to protect the board from UV.

iv spent 12c on the piece of paper that i used to create the board.
iv spent less then .01c on the toner. and etching chemical, is $12 for 400g use enough to cover just the board and iv spent probably 30c to etch it. so 42.01c plus 10c for the board, 52.01c to make a board, even buying alot of boards made in chine at like 10$ each board mine are way cheaper. i can make 100board for $52 rather then $500.

the quality on my boards is and will be just as good as a routed board maybe not as clear cut, as one, but the quality will be just as good.

if i was making something incredibly complex then yer i probably would get a professionally made board, but its not incredibly complex its a few surface mount components on a 20X6 cm board.

[smithsy]

$10/board???

I just checked one site and you can do them for less than $2.50/board shipped if you're talking about a volume of 100.

Now considering that's already precut, manufactured to better levels of quality and solder masked (which will help stop the copper tracks corroding), I don't see why you'd want to muck around making 100 boards yourself, your effectively going to be using more than $2 in labour per board to make them. But hey if you wanna waste your time and not take any advice of a better and more effective way to do it then knock yourself out!

Dire, it's not being creative and productive to make the boards yourself if there is an easier and better way of doing it, it's called trying to reinvent the wheel!

[smithsy]

for the boards im making, the toner transfer method, for making boards its the best and cheapest way.
...
the quality on my boards is and will be just as good as a routed board maybe not as clear cut, as one, but the quality will be just as good.

It's the cheapest way of doing it, but by no means the best. if you think a lil DIY at home job is as good as a proper professionally made board then you don't know much about electronics

[Dire]

Maybe he enjoys doing it himself?

You're welcome to suggest cheaper methods I suppose, but your tone is as if you are simply trying to put Blakey down.

I don't see Blakey producing 50 sets of these anyway. This seems more like a creative project than a money-making thing to me (correct me if I'm wrong).
Almost like a hobby project, hes doing it all himself and if his work makes some other members happy in the process thats good too.

Sorry to speak for you Blake.

[Blakey]

Labor, i dont even know that word. for a hobby, there is no labor. i could make a board in under 1h rather then waiting 4-5weeks for boards that have cost me by your cost $250. of course i cant make the board in 1H as i do the work in my spare time. so after work and when im not studying for uni.

and i know hand made boards are very reliable. some of QLD's Electrical Grid is running on boards made in a very similar way to this, also copper doesn't corrode its oxidizes. tinning also oxidizes, and im putting a conformal UV coating to prevent that and damage from UV. something normal boards dont have.

also, please let me know the differences in quality, id really like to know. tell me how machine made, makes them better? and dont say solder mask or silkscreen, they have nothing to do with quality.

[Blakey]

Maybe he enjoys doing it himself?

You're welcome to suggest cheaper methods I suppose, but your tone is as if you are simply trying to put Blakey down.

I don't see Blakey producing 50 sets of these anyway. This seems more like a creative project than a money-making thing to me (correct me if I'm wrong).
Almost like a hobby project, hes doing it all himself and if his work makes some other members happy in the process thats good too.

Sorry to speak for you Blake.

all good made. and as you said im not out to make money off this if i do sell them to other members if i am allowed, ill be making like 10c

i throw 10c out every day at work when i buy a drink. lol

also he is welcome to suggest cheaper methods, but his method isnt cheaper its about 4times the price lol

[smithsy]

Oxidization is a form of corrosion (for you info corrosion is the reaction of a material with other chemicals in it's environment)!!! Being around the exhaust area of a car you also have the potential for minor amounts of sulphur which would also etch the copper if it combines with water, this is also a form of corrosion. So what I initially said in referring to it as corrosion is 100% correct.

Besides the pro boards are already solder masked for you which will reduce the corrosion. I also know of many boards in my workplace that are self made, however they are properly made up in Sydney and not oddgey backyard jobs!

If it takes you one hour to make 100 boards your doing pretty good, plus it would be a two week lead time on 100 boards from China at most.

Oh well have fun making, cutting out and sanding to size 100 boards! Personally I'd rather pay $2/per board (which you can recoup by adding $2 to the purchase price of the units anyway)

[Blakey]

why would i want them to cost more? and its $2.50 for 100 boards, i doubt i will sell anywhere near 100 if i sell any at all. making it iv just wasted alot of money that i cant get back. and i will have fun its the whole point of a hobby.

and as i said before a conformal coating is alot better then a solder mask. plus the unit will be waterproof. when fully assembled

[draevon]

Oh god who cares!

Smithsy, it's Blakey's thread, he doesn't want your advice, just let it go.

No-one cares.

[SAM-24A]

Blake, stay on track with your project and do what suits you. Cant wait to see the final working product.
Smithy, your input is welcome, as is anyone's, however it needs to be constructive rather than destructive.
Blake is doing this as an extension of his talents, and hopefully, if it all works out the way he envisages, some members may request these LED Reflectors for their own vehicles.
I don't think Blake has embarked on this project with the aspiration of making huge $$$, rather it's probably more about producing a product which is not-available elsewhere, unique and pertinent to Lancers without being concernerd with the Mass Production Costs you keep touting-on about.

Cheers: Sam

PS: Smithy, why dont you embark on a similar project and enrich this club with your talents.

[DORA_ANNE]

Blake Keep doing what you are doing , You are doing a great job.. It's what you enjoy doing that Matters the most .

IF you were my Son I would be Proud of what you have Achieved so Far in life , You still being a young Lad ...

Keep up the good work Some others might think this is sloppy but I do believe in giving credit when it's due ...