ClubCJ - The CJ Lancer Club

Hey guys, sorry for the barrage of questions lately, and if they have already been discussed and answered or not, search doesnt pop up anything useful so ill try and keep the last few i have consolodated here, which will be easier for future reference if god forbid another is thinking about this part.

Im trying to build a frankenstein CJ pretty much. I currently have an ES, and want the best of all worlds.
In a perfect world i want a 2.4L turbo AWD variant. Basically a raliart reshelled into my ES, but the problem with that is the RA only came in SST. I want a manual plain and simple or its a no go. So basically now an Evo X into an ES. kind of.
The few questions i have are as follows:

1) the differences between the 4b11 evo x engine and the 4b12. I ask because the way i have to do the above mentioned is to bolt an evo x manual box to a 4b12, as i cannot bolt up a manual RA box obviously.
2) difference in the evo x manual and the RA SST with regards to where everything comes out. My concern here is the chassis tunnel, if the evo X is much wider/offset a fraction etc to accomodate for the different running gear/custom prop shaft made etc etc.
3) will an RA end bolt straight up to another FWD CY4A chassis if i make the necessary mounting points - basically if i can just bolt in an RA rear cradle if i drill out the mounting points.

In an ideal world i can just buy a VRX motor, evo box and RA rear end, and bolt them all up with little modifications, but its probably not going to be that easy. That being said, working in my job and the facilities at my disposal i can probably do this a hell of a lot cheaper than most others, the main reason being i dont just go out and buy an evo. I dont have 20k + lying around. Ive spotted an engine for 650, box for 500, complete rear cradle for 350 and already thats most of big bits for peanuts.

Anyway, without boring you all further, i would love the following if people can provide photos and some brief measurements:

4B12 motor from gearbox side with flywheel in and bell housing bolt holes visible.
4B11 (preferrably evo variant if it is any different) motor from gearbox side with flywheel in and bell housing bolt holes visible.
Evo manual gearbox from motor side, with bolt holes visible - and from the rear.
Regular CY4A manual box (i understand all CY's use the same box) from the motor side with bolt holes visible

So please, if you have any of those out/lying around/old photos etc and can take a quick snap, or possibly even get a few measurements (as i doubt anyone has actually tried or successfully done this before) then i can get a good idea whether or not it is worth it (as anything is possible with enough cash thrown at it lol)

The other route, if it is not possible, is the same thing but just FWD ( )

The other benefit here i guess, is if this proves successful, is that people will be able to manual convert their rallarts - if they want to go down such a route after their warranties are over

Thats an evo x dog box, but the external wil be the same. So if i can get someone with an RA box to get a quick pick on the same angle as that it should tell me if its close or not.

Ive found this pic of an RA box on the net, but quality is picturesque of a potato camera.

Looks like all the appropriate holes are there, but theres a few things that look like they might be off, starting with the bellhousing, you can see where it has a gap in the evo x box, and a thin continual wall on the SST, whether this will effect anything im unsure. If it doesnt then its looking good so far.

**EDIT**

OK so through some basic logic, on paper i should be able to mate a 4b12 to a CZ4A awd manual box. My logic is as follows.
4b11t bolts to cz4a awd box
4b11t bolts to cy4a fwd box
therefore 4b11t and 4b12 have same bolt pattern
therefore 4b12 bolts to anything 4b11t does, which is the cz4a awd box.

So now, its a question of whats different on the blocks - what bolts where to the outside etc.

Firstly you are not going to get AWD. The work involved you would be better off buying a 2nd hand Evo. Secondly, have you driven an SST in manual mode? Try it before you knock it - clutch petals are so last century. Thirdly, why are you looking at replacing the gearbox? Is yours damaged? The most you should need to do at first is replace the clutch with something heavy duty. Replace your gearbox if it breaks

In terms of what you plan to do, either turbo charge your current engine - From memory of others who have done this you can push up to 10 psi, which would make a serious difference to your car. Lot of work though. Other option is to buy a 4b11T engine and have it put in, then all the other work besides.

Check out Denza's thread to see what can be done, and the huge commitment of time and money to do it

mine is an auto, so i have to purchase a manual box regardless.
second, my engine needs a rebuild and is a basic early model 4b11, it is actually cheaper to buy a low km 4b12 than to rebuild mine, regardless of whether i do all labor myself, so thats a no brainer.
so im buying a 4b12 and manual box regardless of whether or not the awd is possible.
again, second hand evo x is at least going to be 20k for a poor to average condition one. This idea will set me back 5k or less pending how smoothly it goes.
All labor can be done by myself, all machining etc can be done at my work for free. the RA chassis is the same as mine, so i see no reason why it would be difficult to bolt up an RA rear end (which i can pick up for 320 bucks)
Im going manual, i dont care if an SST is faster, thats not really an option to go to tbh.
Turbo'ing the car will come later, im in no rush to get that done, which will cut back on costs pretty decently.
As it stands my costs are around 1500-1600, for pretty much everything - engine/box/rear cradle etc. Again, i can absorb all labor and machining/fabrication costs, and can get all suspension/brake/steering etc stuff from work at essentially cost price. Really dont see how that compares to spending 20k minimum evo x

Why don't you look for parts in America?
I believe they came out with a NA all wheel drive. Probably a lot easier.

Id imagine shipping would be a killer for a everything i need from america.
Also, if the evo box bolts straight up as it should, then its designed to handle a lot more power and save me money in the long run if not immediately over buying out the US.
Cheers and ill keep an eye out, but i imagine shipping alone would be in excess of several hundred if not more

Maybe, but at least you should be able to track down pics of the AWD on the ES, and whether it differs from the RA/Evo setup

Also, you may want to speak with Beeble or Merlin regarding ECU changes/requirements with a different engine & gearbox

Well the 'SE' was only available in SST like the RA, and caradvice.com says it joins the RA in driveline layout, so itll just be an NA RA.
Either way ill have to mate the evo X box in, as its the only box in manual/awd.
I imagine the end result will be an RA read end coupled to an evo box and 4b12.
Just need a few other good pics to confirm

Have you thought about diff ratios ? There may be a difference between two.

I got the car up onto the hoist again today and had a good look/measure and the rear cradle will bolt straight up out of an RA. I wouldnt be surprised if i the cradle frame was the same.
The Tunnel is also good news, with PLENTY of room, its quite deceptive as the rear heat shield narrows it down, and once removed gives more than enough space.
The question is now if the front subframe is the same as it looks pretty narrow to get a xfer case in there, but that is nothing big or costly (or a hard to find item)
This means my problem is now making sure the electronic side will be taken care of, with it potentially being the most expensive part if i cant make a frankenstein loom and have to go full stand alone.
Or relocating something on the back of the 4b12 to fit the xfer case, although from a few pics clearance should be fine.
In regards to diff ratios ill be handing that aspect over to a friend, who is more specialized in transmission/driveline modifications than me. Im sure something will be figured out